Editor’s Be aware: Learn The Atlantic’s associated story, “Zelensky Makes His Pitch to Trump.”
On Wednesday afternoon, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky invited me for an interview at his workplace in Kyiv. Practically a yr had handed since we’d final met in that room, which is adorned with the patches of army items combating within the struggle in opposition to Russia. Again then, in March 2025, Zelensky wished to speak concerning the argument he had had with Donald Trump within the Oval Workplace, a low level of their relationship.
This time, Trump was once more on his thoughts. Zelensky sees the American president as the one one who can power the Kremlin to compromise and grant concessions for the sake of peace. And Zelensky appeared conscious about what may compel Trump to prioritize Ukraine’s curiosity in negotiating an finish to the combating after 4 years of struggle.
Later that day, Zelensky was as a result of meet his workforce of negotiators, who had lately returned from a spherical of talks with the Russians, in Abu Dhabi. One other spherical is scheduled for subsequent week, and Zelensky doesn’t need to miss this opportunity to succeed in a deal. However he insists that any such settlement should be acceptable to the Ukrainian individuals, whose approval he intends to hunt in a referendum as early as this spring.
Zelensky instructed me quite a bit about these plans, what situations should be met earlier than they will transfer ahead, and the essential position he hopes Trump will play. What follows are excerpts from our dialog, which have been edited for readability.
Simon Shuster: Thanks, Mr. President, for making time for this dialog. It’s a busy information day, and the information these days has not all been in Russia’s favor by any means. Their financial system is struggling. Their casualties are huge. How do you assess the steadiness of forces within the struggle right this moment?
Volodymyr Zelensky: Ukraine isn’t shedding. And I believe the administration of President Trump has gotten that message. In some methods, it could have shocked them, as a result of Russian propaganda can be working straight on them. Not too long ago, we calculated {that a} single kilometer of occupied Ukrainian land prices them 170 casualties. That’s individuals killed or wounded so closely that they don’t seem to be coming again. Now we have all of the proof of this. To say that in these final six months they’re profitable someplace? No.
Shuster: How does this state of affairs have an effect on the negotiating course of?
Zelensky: The tactic we selected is for the Individuals to not assume that we need to proceed the struggle. It’s not sufficient simply to say that we don’t need to hold combating. That’s why we began supporting their proposals in any format. Once they say, Let’s hurry and meet!, we are saying, Positive! Are you able to freeze the road the place you stand now? We’re prepared. Are you prepared for some compromises? Provided that the opposite aspect needs to compromise. Are you prepared to fulfill the Russians in America? For us, it doesn’t matter the place, besides Moscow.
Shuster: After the final spherical of talks, in Abu Dhabi, you mentioned the Russian place softened in some methods. For instance, they started discussing a trilateral assembly between your self, Trump, and Vladimir Putin. What does that inform you? What’s the Russian tactic right here?
Zelensky: In my opinion, they should go away all our territory. That’s not doable as of right this moment. But when we need to have a line of contact that doesn’t run via the center of cities, then somebody might want to step again. If they are saying they are going to withdraw, and we withdraw, it might work in areas the place, for instance, you could have the steppe. The place it’s a metropolis, I believe that is not sensible. If we go away, it is going to be a useless zone. That’s why I discover that to be illogical. As for his or her recommendations a couple of “free financial zone” and all of that, for us it simply means leaving our territory. I don’t see any justice in that. It’s not proper.
Shuster: How do you perceive the targets and pursuits of the American aspect on this peace course of? What drives them?
Zelensky: I believe there isn’t any higher victory for Trump than to cease the struggle between Russia and Ukraine. That is the largest floor struggle in a long time. For his legacy, it’s No. 1.
Shuster: Have the Individuals mentioned how they’d react if Russia have been to violate a peace deal and assault Ukraine once more? Are they ready, for instance, to impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine in response to a different invasion?
Zelensky: We’re speaking about the truth that there might be a response. There might be weapons, sanctions, and pushback. The query is, what sort of pushback? There must be an understanding about this stuff. What does it imply to have the assist of our companions, for them to push again? Thus far, we now have, let’s say, optimistic alerts, which have to change into an understanding of actual actions. We need to have a significant understanding of what that response might be within the occasion of renewed aggression like we noticed in 2022. What precisely will our companions do? We want all of this to be written out.
Shuster: In regards to the no-fly zone—I keep in mind you requested the Individuals and NATO to impose one in 2022, to shoot down rockets flying over Ukraine with out getting into Ukrainian airspace. Do you could have an understanding that the Individuals can be prepared to try this?
Zelensky: That hasn’t been mounted but. Now we have raised it, and we are going to proceed to boost all these questions, as a result of there have been totally different proposals. For instance, the coalition of the keen might have planes standing on the border of Ukraine, able to shoot down aerial targets.
Shuster: You will have expressed concern that the talks between the U.S. and Russia have touched on questions associated to the sovereign territory of Ukraine. What did you imply precisely?
Zelensky: We all know that the Individuals are constructing bilateral relations with the Russians. We perceive the sign that the Individuals gave the Russians: Let’s begin by ending the struggle. We assist that place. It’s honest. Nonetheless, in our view, they can’t develop initiatives with them throughout this struggle. Now we have info that they’re discussing bilateral paperwork amongst themselves. I’ve mentioned that these paperwork mustn’t embody questions associated to Ukraine. I’m not even speaking about economics. For instance, the Russians have appealed to the Individuals in relation to this or that piece of occupied territory. And if they’re constructing relations on our territory, we undoubtedly have the proper to find out about it.
Shuster: Do you could have info that such initiatives are being mentioned within the context of the U.S. talks with the Russians?
Zelensky: No. I’ve info that the Russian aspect has raised. My view is that they’re elevating extra harmful info than what I instructed you. I’m speaking concerning the financial aspect of issues. Let’s think about, for instance, that Russia needs American recognition of some territory that’s beneath Russia’s management. I’m not saying the Individuals would do this. I’m simply saying that they need this and are pushing for this to occur. I’m in opposition to this stuff. I believe they’re harmful. And for President Trump, they’re harmful inside his nation, in my opinion.
Shuster: How so?
Zelensky: As a result of America is a good democracy. They could possibly be provoked into recognizing this or that territory, and that’s simply not possible. If a fantastic nation will acknowledge briefly occupied territory, then I believe there could possibly be many different territories that others might attempt to take by power.
Shuster: You will have known as on Putin to fulfill you to resolve essentially the most delicate elements of the peace plan. How do you think about such a gathering? What’s it that you simply need to look him within the eyes and say?
Zelensky: It’s not about eager to look him within the eyes. Usually, I’m not interested by sentiments when assembly him. Now we have questions associated to Ukrainian territory that nobody can resolve right this moment. The insurance policies of various nations allowed Putin to opine on this subject by occupying land and making excuses for his actions. Proper now there is just one energy—Ukraine—that’s bodily combating in opposition to him. And my dialog with him can solely be centered on ending the struggle. Meaning our dialog should be completely open, insofar as that’s doable. It’s merely a dialog about methods to finish the struggle in order that it doesn’t begin once more.
Shuster: I can think about it will be troublesome so that you can maintain again your feelings throughout such a gathering.
Zelensky: Why ought to I be emotional or unemotional? What’s the distinction? Our aim is to finish the struggle. I believe he might need a unique aim. We don’t know. In the course of the struggle, we now have not met. Everybody has tried to do one thing about it, and but the struggle continues. So in my opinion, it’s logical to have a gathering of leaders who can speak about essentially the most troublesome points. Who else can I discuss to concerning the questions of territory?
Shuster: Do you could have the sense that he can be keen to fulfill with you? That he would signal a peace deal that features, as an example, safety ensures for Ukraine?
Zelensky: I don’t assume both aspect has an actual need to fulfill. We’re enemies, in any case. In all honesty, nobody has expressed a need to do that. However there’s a willingness. I believe it’s the proper resolution to fulfill and attempt to finish the struggle. The Individuals ask what we take into consideration the concept of such a gathering. We mentioned we might assist it. We’re prepared to fulfill in any format, besides in Moscow or Belarus.
Shuster: Some elements of the 20-point plan for peace can be not possible to enact with out holding a referendum. Will the Ukrainian individuals have to approve any a part of the plan associated to territory?
Zelensky: It’s not fairly like that. Usually, any agreements to finish a struggle should be signed by the presidents, after which they need to both be ratified by parliaments or via a referendum. I don’t consider we might handle to enact a plan that’s actually nice for us and never good for the Russians. As I’ve truthfully mentioned, even when there’s a plan to depart the entrance line the place it’s and to face the place we stand, it’s nonetheless higher to carry a referendum, in my opinion. It’s not solely higher for us. Our individuals have gone via this struggle, and so they deserve a proper to vote sure or no. It’s a query of equity. A referendum would have lots of power by way of guaranteeing safety for Ukraine, as a result of I’m positive that the entire world would acknowledge the referendum if it’s carried out in the proper approach.
Shuster: What’s the timeline you count on or hope to have for organizing it?
Zelensky: It is determined by the political will of the Russians. If they’re actually prepared to finish the struggle, and if the situations round sure factors that at the moment are unacceptable to Ukraine might be modified via an affordable compromise, then we will take into consideration subsequent steps. It might probably take a number of months. And if they don’t seem to be prepared, then what’s the purpose of even speaking about it?
Shuster: Numerous officers within the U.S. have additionally raised the query of elections in Ukraine. When would you envision that occuring?
Zelensky: You recognize, the US raised the query of elections, and the Russians have raised this query. I mentioned straight away: Nobody is clinging to energy. I’m prepared to carry elections, however for that we’d like safety. Ensures of safety, a cease-fire. These items are mandatory and completely clear. It has nothing to do with the date. We might have achieved it a very long time in the past.
After we hear these sorts of proposals, you understand, generally I get the impression that it’s like: What else can we provide the Ukrainians simply to see in the event that they’ll refuse? We’re not afraid of something. Are we prepared for elections? We’re prepared. Are we prepared for a referendum? We’re prepared. Let the individuals resolve.
Shuster: Given the sequence of situations you see as mandatory for a deal, it doesn’t look like you’re in a fantastic hurry to make one.
Zelensky: No, that’s not proper. We’re in a rush to finish the struggle. Now we have losses. Folks, above all: troopers, civilians. We should be as shut as doable with the companions who can cease Putin, and right this moment that’s solely Trump. Those that could also be succesful, I don’t see them doing a lot. And people who try are both incapable or the Russians don’t take them severely. That’s why they determined that that is the simplest and quickest method to do away with me. That’s why I believe the concept of holding elections throughout the struggle has been, above all, the Russian place.
Afterward, the American aspect picked it up. That’s no secret. I’m not blaming the American aspect for something. However they raised the instance of Abraham Lincoln, who held elections throughout a time of struggle in America. They mentioned, Reveal that you’re prepared! And I mentioned, I am prepared.
Shuster: Do you could have the sense that the subsequent few months might be your window of alternative to finish the struggle, whereas President Trump is admittedly engaged on this?
Zelensky: I believe so. Let this be my subjective perspective, as a result of I do know that the American aspect generally will get offended after I categorical this specific opinion. However one factor is obvious to me. The Russians can use this time to finish the struggle whereas President Trump is admittedly interested by that, when it’s essential and precious to him. Beneficial may sound too mercantile for some individuals. However let’s converse truthfully. Essentially the most advantageous state of affairs for Trump is to do that earlier than the midterms. That will be a victory for him. Sure, he needs there to be much less deaths. However for those who and I are speaking like adults, it’s only a victory for him, a political one.
Shuster: Let’s think about the second comes to carry a referendum that enables the individuals of Ukraine to approve a peace plan. What can be your message to them? How would you urge them to vote?
Zelensky: It relies upon what might be up for a referendum. If there might be proposals that don’t have anything to do with compromise, with a good conclusion, if there might be unviable proposals, I actually won’t inform individuals to vote sure. Usually, I’ve no need to carry a referendum on proposals that won’t work out. I believe that’s not cheap, and I argue with all of the negotiators about this.
Shuster: What do you consider the concept of holding a referendum and an election on the similar time?
Zelensky: Can that occur? It might probably. I’m all proper with that. Above all, it must work, so that folks prove to vote. I don’t assume we must always put a nasty deal up for a referendum. I think about that unfair on a visceral degree. Think about these individuals sitting there with out gentle, with out something. A few of them would in all probability be keen to simply accept any situations. However we can not settle for the situations that Russia is providing, as a result of they may flip round tomorrow and begin one other struggle.
Shuster: What occurs if Trump says: That’s it—I’m sick of those talks, and as a substitute he shifts his focus to home U.S. politics?
Zelensky: That will be dangerous. We don’t need the Individuals to depart these negotiations. I simply don’t perceive why the Individuals wouldn’t see the worth of all this for themselves. We’re supporting their makes an attempt to make peace. Sure, Trump might flip his focus to different pursuits. And if that stops the peace course of, we might have a more durable time pushing it ahead.
Shuster: After which what? All the things can be selected the battlefield?
Zelensky: Nicely, no, I don’t assume so. I believe there would nonetheless should be some sort of negotiations on this or that format. The negotiations have already began. The difficulty is that I don’t but see a need on the a part of the Russians to finish the struggle. Sure, they’re now exhibiting extra of a willingness, and that’s due to Trump. So let’s say Trump goes away. Then they’d not show that willingness anymore. How will that have an effect on their actions? It won’t.
In the event that they don’t need to finish the struggle, then it makes no distinction what we are saying. They may do every part to not finish it. That’s why, no matter whether or not America helps with the negotiations or doesn’t assist, the consequence can be the identical: The Russians will discover methods to not finish the struggle. It’s simpler for us to finish it with the Individuals. It’s simpler as a result of they will power the Russians. I believe Trump is the one individual able to doing that right this moment.
