EMILY KWONG, HOST:
Earlier than she was NPR’s London correspondent, Lauren Frayer was primarily based in Mumbai, protecting India.
LAUREN FRAYER, BYLINE: And in India, I used to be form of at all times conscious of being a white Westerner in a rustic with an Anglo-colonial previous. So after I turned to, like, making ready for an task to cowl the U.Ok., I had absorbed a view of the U.Ok. via Indian eyes, via the eyes of the colonized.
KWONG: Oh, fascinating. Proper.
FRAYER: And yeah. Like, I believe arriving in London, I felt like I used to be, in some methods, going into the darkish coronary heart, the foundation of empire.
KWONG: And 2023 was an ineresting 12 months within the U.Ok. The British prime minster of the time, Rishi Sunak, is of Indian descent, and the Scottish chief, Humza Yousaf, of Pakistani descent.
FRAYER: When the British Empire gave up colonial India in 1947, it partitionied…
KWONG: Sure.
FRAYER: …Colonial India into India and Pakistan.
KWONG: Proper.
FRAYER: So after I arrived right here, there was a push for Scottish independence, and other people used to joke, like, it could be Brits of Indian and Pakistani descent partitioning the UK if Scotland have been to go away.
KWONG: And that is what Lauren thought her new task could be, addressing the legacy of the British Empire. And for this week’s Reporter’s Pocket book, I wished to see how that expectation held up. One of many first tales Lauren lined in London was the coronation of King Charles III and his spouse Camilla.
FRAYER: So I arrived within the U.Ok., like, every week earlier than the coronation, and this was the primary story I lined.
KWONG: No stress.
FRAYER: And I gave myself a – yeah – crash course in royal pomp and pageantry. Like, I needed to be taught concerning the orb and the scepter, the seventeenth century golden ball and a rod that the king holds. It form of appears to be like like a magic wand. And to bridge my outdated beat and new beat, I introduced some reporting from India with me concerning the Koh-i-Noor diamond. This diamond, over the centuries, handed via Mughal, Persian, Afghan, Punjabi Sikh empires earlier than it was gifted – learn plundered – from a Punjabi youngster prince to Queen Victoria. And after I arrived right here, I went to see it on show within the Crown Jewels within the Tower of London.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Which was not too long ago…
FRAYER: So, I am on, like, a conveyor belt, people-mover that it’s a must to stand on as you whiz previous the crown jewels – pearls, diamonds, crosses, rubies, emeralds. And I believe that is the Koh-i-Noor. Sure. And it is simply glowing. It is wonderful. It is like the scale of a walnut.
And I joined South Asian vacationers shuffling previous this diamond whispering, that is ours.
KWONG: Wow.
FRAYER: Like, even the Taliban lays declare to this diamond. And it simply – it is form of an emblem of, like, anti-colonial anger. And at that coronation, Queen Camilla didn’t put on it.
KWONG: Proper. She wore a distinct crown. Completely different diamonds.
FRAYER: It was simply too delicate to carry out. Yeah.
KWONG: It has been now virtually three years because you landed in London and started this work. And your beat is – it is totally different than you anticipated, nevertheless it looks as if it is modified quickly within the final 12 months. I imply, when did you understand simply the extent of how issues have been altering for you?
FRAYER: I in all probability ought to have realized it earlier, however simply in current months, I imply, with Trump’s reelection. So the U.Ok. is form of midway geographically, culturally, politically between U.S. and Europe – form of in the midst of the Atlantic, politically. And in 2020, Brexit occurred. The U.Ok. adopted via on a public choice to go away the European Union and, at that time, form of put all of its eggs within the different basket, its relationship with the USA. They name it…
KWONG: Yeah.
FRAYER: …The particular relationship. And now, with what many see as form of erratic insurance policies of the Trump administration, the U.Ok. is left within the lurch slightly bit.
KWONG: So how have you ever pivoted to regulate to this new actuality the place we’re seeing actual pressure between the U.S. and these longstanding European companions?
FRAYER: So NPR’s Worldwide Desk launched this sequence referred to as Altering World Order. And in certainly one of our podcast episodes for that, I spoke with my colleague Eyder Peralta in Mexico about what this modification means for everyone.
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EYDER PERALTA: I will be the cynic. Possibly we’ll look again on it as a return to what the world desires to be, which is a return to a time the place would possibly makes proper, the place we’re sheer energy and violent.
KWONG: Does this really feel like a step again to the previous?
FRAYER: A few of my sources say it is a step again to form of nineteenth century fashion imperial diplomacy – , muscular energy, nice energy competitors. British Empire was on high of that centuries in the past. Like, it is a midsize nation now, and it is…
KWONG: Yeah.
FRAYER: …Dealing with that.
KWONG: Lauren, one other massive story you lined this 12 months was President Trump’s state go to to the U.Ok. Remind us how that went and what it was prefer to report on Trump and Prime Minister Keir Starmer. I perceive no less than publicly, he is very heat in the direction of Trump. He’ll embrace him.
FRAYER: Starmer form of practices what some individuals name appeasement with Trump. They discuss on the telephone a ton. Trump got here to the U.Ok. twice final summer season in September. Starmer and Trump frolicked at a Trump golf resort in Scotland. Starmer, like, hugs him. They smile. He tries to not contradict him. Regardless that he appears to be like, like, fairly uncomfortable generally standing subsequent to Trump, his spouse much more so in that Scotland go to.
KWONG: Exterior the halls of energy, whenever you communicate to individuals, how do they see this second and the altering world order?
FRAYER: Persons are scared. You recognize, it is a second of actual uncertainty. Former officers, I discovered, can typically be form of extra candid on the file. I spoke not too long ago with George Robertson. He is a former secretary common of NATO. He is identified right here as Lord Robertson. He is within the Home of Lords. He is a former U.Ok. secretary of state for protection. And we talked about this form of return to nineteenth century nice energy competitors.
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GEORGE ROBERTSON: And that was a wild world, the place disputes between nations have been often resolved by struggle and by battle moderately than via deliberation and negotiation. So we have to by some means be sure that President Xi, President Kim Jong-Un, the Ayatollahs in Iran and President Donald J. Trump acknowledge that multilateralism is within the pursuits of all of us and that the choice is a return to open warfare and a Wild West of worldwide relations.
FRAYER: Discover the figures he is evaluating…
KWONG: Yeah.
FRAYER: …Trump to.
KWONG: Wow.
FRAYER: Like, that is not one thing you’d get from Starmer in any respect.
KWONG: Yeah. Proper. And the way pointed it’s. What about different on a regular basis individuals whose views do not make the information?
FRAYER: I imply, Trump shouldn’t be admired right here. When he visited in his first time period, Londoners hoisted an enormous orange child Trump blimp over the town. Even these on the correct right here, not many are Trump followers. We’re seeing surging help for the far-right anti-immigrant get together right here. It is referred to as Reform U.Ok. However even its chief, Nigel Farage, is seen as being tainted by his friendship with Trump. He would possibly get elected, nevertheless it will not be due to his friendship with Trump. It could be regardless of that.
However, , this 12 months marks 250 years because the U.S. Declaration of Independence. And I will be reporting this 12 months on how Brits see that form of legendary divorce, proper? Like, I imply, some see it as the primary chink within the armor of the British Empire.
KWONG: All of it comes again to empire.
FRAYER: Possibly I will get to cowl that in spite of everything.
KWONG: I am unable to wait to listen to that. So what unanswered questions are nonetheless driving your reporting?
FRAYER: I imply, will there be a divorce within the particular relationship in U.S.-U.Ok. ties? Will leaders right here, like, form of bide their time till, , the top of Trump’s time period after which hope that, like, the world rights itself, hope relations return to what they have been? Is the harm already achieved? Will Europe be capable of defend itself?
You recognize, the U.Ok. is reevaluating its position on the planet. A part of that, once more, is empire. It is coming to phrases with the inequities of the previous. Will the royals apologize for profiting off the slave commerce for hundreds of years? Will the royals apologize for Epstein? Will the UK keep united? We thought it was going to be Scottish independence that was voted down, however more and more, it appears to be like like Irish reunification could also be an – a not if, however a when.
And I’ve typically thought that the U.Ok. is slightly little bit of a roadmap or an instance for America. Like, the U.Ok. was the richest, strongest, , largest navy on the planet when it had an empire. Now it is only a midsize nation. And but it, like, downsized and managed to retain its democracy. And I believe that provides classes for different massive behemoths that is perhaps seeing their position on the planet diminish.
KWONG: Lauren Frayer, worldwide correspondent for NPR, thanks a lot for approaching Reporter’s Pocket book.
FRAYER: Thanks for having me, Emily.
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